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and ordinary pokes -- phones like us? >> interesting. when i was back then, was part of joe biden's task force and was there, the last day, the week he was doing this and it was interesting to listen to them. i tried to point out that we're doing it different than we did with tobacco. >> right. >> and the willing came on the back end. with guns, we have tried to do the legislative piece first for people's attitudes. >> that's right. >> and i think i think they will have to take the approach. they're not ready for that and they said yeah, you know. >> what you're saying is so important: until we see it as the epidemic it is and from my perspective as a psychologist, i think what motivates people to hold on to guns and violence, people feel frightened and ensure. >> yes. >> and yet is the biggest epidemic in america, which is mental health issues. >> yeah. >> we have anxiety and depression, they trying to find a way to be safe. >> and this is that whole range of reasons that people feel that, you know, they have to take it to the next level with violence and with a gun. the young people i work,
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